Comments on: I Used to Love Jesus http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/ Science. Humanism. Atheism. Politics. Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:06:32 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1 hourly 1 By: Christopher Wing http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-13676 Christopher Wing Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:17:16 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-13676 See, here's your problem, and why I'm angry. Barry couldn't be more wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. He sounds like he's smart, but he's not making this up - he's copying it word for word for a site that says that the earth is 6000 years old. Is the earth 6000 years old? Should you listen to ANYONE who says it is? Now, if Barry wants to be dumb on his own, that's fine. But Barry wants ALL of us to be dumb. The simple truth is that science and religion are enemies. They say very different things about the earth, and about humanity. One has facts, the other has faith. Christians want all of us to be dumb. Not in the "2+2=5" way, but in the "don't think about anything too much," kinda way. Faith is the opposite of thinking. If you thought about the illogical nature of faith and religion, it's pretty obvious. Now, you may be fine with this, but the second people start letting their faith get in the way of the logic that makes our laws and our rights, I get pissed. I don't have time for them - we've got hungry and sick people in the world. You know - the people the Christians promised they'd take care of. So if someone gets in the way of logic, I really don't care what invisible cloud being they get off on. They are working against society, they belong to a cult, and they make the world a more dangerous place. See, here’s your problem, and why I’m angry. Barry couldn’t be more wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. He sounds like he’s smart, but he’s not making this up – he’s copying it word for word for a site that says that the earth is 6000 years old. Is the earth 6000 years old? Should you listen to ANYONE who says it is?

Now, if Barry wants to be dumb on his own, that’s fine. But Barry wants ALL of us to be dumb. The simple truth is that science and religion are enemies. They say very different things about the earth, and about humanity. One has facts, the other has faith.

Christians want all of us to be dumb. Not in the “2+2=5″ way, but in the “don’t think about anything too much,” kinda way. Faith is the opposite of thinking. If you thought about the illogical nature of faith and religion, it’s pretty obvious.

Now, you may be fine with this, but the second people start letting their faith get in the way of the logic that makes our laws and our rights, I get pissed. I don’t have time for them – we’ve got hungry and sick people in the world. You know – the people the Christians promised they’d take care of.

So if someone gets in the way of logic, I really don’t care what invisible cloud being they get off on. They are working against society, they belong to a cult, and they make the world a more dangerous place.

]]> By: JerseyGuy http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-12760 JerseyGuy Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:54:43 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-12760 Katie, Thanks for your thought-provoking post. I've had similar life experiences and used to think as you've described, but no more. I read about the apologists for segregation in the U.S. Southern States and it began to feel like I was following in their footsteps. They'd argue, "Negroes have the freedom to do what they want in their schools, businesses & churches - we (whites) just want the same freedom to do what we want in our schools, businesses & churches". Similarly, you argue, "I refuse to attempt to take down their [believer's] support base" because "They need religion to cope, live and love. " The problem comes in those three words, "cope, live & love." What if "they" [believers] can only *cope* with their hidden gayness by condemning it in others? What if "they" think to *live* rightly is to make it legal for pharmacists to refuse to sell birth control? What if "they", as you found out in those 2 weeks you lost your friends, are systematically brain-washed to limit *love* only to those who are also believers? Just a thought, and offered with no disrespect: Are you still trying to please "them", when you would ultimately be happier and freer if you confront them? Thanks again! Katie,

Thanks for your thought-provoking post. I’ve had similar life experiences and used to think as you’ve described, but no more. I read about the apologists for segregation in the U.S. Southern States and it began to feel like I was following in their footsteps. They’d argue, “Negroes have the freedom to do what they want in their schools, businesses & churches – we (whites) just want the same freedom to do what we want in our schools, businesses & churches”.

Similarly, you argue, “I refuse to attempt to take down their [believer's] support base” because “They need religion to cope, live and love. ”

The problem comes in those three words, “cope, live & love.”

What if “they” [believers] can only *cope* with their hidden gayness by condemning it in others?
What if “they” think to *live* rightly is to make it legal for pharmacists to refuse to sell birth control?
What if “they”, as you found out in those 2 weeks you lost your friends, are systematically brain-washed to limit *love* only to those who are also believers?

Just a thought, and offered with no disrespect: Are you still trying to please “them”, when you would ultimately be happier and freer if you confront them?

Thanks again!

]]> By: annonymous http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2998 annonymous Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:51:08 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-2998 I don't know why... but I want to post a hate spam. maybe its because I only read the last part, and I'm too tired to actually care. well good night. oh and in the usa, its sometimes difficult to be a Christian, and way easy to be an atheist. its a lot easier to say you don't believe in anything that to say you believe in something only to be forced to prove it to other people. I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to.... screw it I'm too tired. go read a book. good night! xD I don’t know why… but I want to post a hate spam. maybe its because I only read the last part, and I’m too tired to actually care. well good night. oh and in the usa, its sometimes difficult to be a Christian, and way easy to be an atheist. its a lot easier to say you don’t believe in anything that to say you believe in something only to be forced to prove it to other people. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be able to…. screw it I’m too tired. go read a book. good night! xD

]]> By: & I used to love Allah http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2897 & I used to love Allah Wed, 05 Nov 2008 07:38:31 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-2897 A very interesting and thoroughly enjoyable post... While my Islamic religious upbringing wasn't quite as fundamentalist or evangelical, it was nonetheless very strict and conservative. For the longest time, due to various reasons, leaps/errors of logic and juggling of evidence, I did believe that my religion/cult had it right and others weren't quite there, if not outright wrong and incorrect. Like you, I arrived at a similar conclusion regarding religion and the "existence" of God, an afterlife, faith and all the dressings and accouterments that come with it, and like you, I hold no ill will towards the religious, as I count among them, my family (both the genetically and non-genetically related individuals), including my wife. While my stance on "atheist-theist relations" is similar to yours, I must say, I often do see the point of the "atheist poster-boys" in their abrasive attitude towards religion, in that, more often than not (I could totally be wrong on this, so please forgive me and correct me if I am) it appears that their rantings and ravings are either of the exasperated or self-defense nature. While calling you names or assigning you attributions like "Christian apologist" or "closet Christian" or even, "fence-sitter" or "cake-eater" are reprehensible and indefensible, calling out the faithful in their fallacies, errors, lack of perspective or blindness, on their morality, philosophy or any other issue that they claim superiority could and should be done as long as they continue to proselytize, "witness" or evangelize. While those that would pray for such things as, say, a safe journey home, or a speedy recovery for a sick loved one are not malicious in their intent, those that would "pray for you" because your beliefs don't match theirs are only putting their snobbishness and elitism on display, because, they are absolutely conveying that you are like a child who doesn't know any better and it is their place and job to get you there, whether it is by divine intervention or their "witnessing". Such people should be knocked down a notch or ten and not all of us have the chutzpah, knowledge or debating skills necessary to do that; I believe therein lies the necessity and good in the poster-boys' militant aggressiveness and abrasiveness. A very interesting and thoroughly enjoyable post… While my Islamic religious upbringing wasn’t quite as fundamentalist or evangelical, it was nonetheless very strict and conservative. For the longest time, due to various reasons, leaps/errors of logic and juggling of evidence, I did believe that my religion/cult had it right and others weren’t quite there, if not outright wrong and incorrect. Like you, I arrived at a similar conclusion regarding religion and the “existence” of God, an afterlife, faith and all the dressings and accouterments that come with it, and like you, I hold no ill will towards the religious, as I count among them, my family (both the genetically and non-genetically related individuals), including my wife. While my stance on “atheist-theist relations” is similar to yours, I must say, I often do see the point of the “atheist poster-boys” in their abrasive attitude towards religion, in that, more often than not (I could totally be wrong on this, so please forgive me and correct me if I am) it appears that their rantings and ravings are either of the exasperated or self-defense nature. While calling you names or assigning you attributions like “Christian apologist” or “closet Christian” or even, “fence-sitter” or “cake-eater” are reprehensible and indefensible, calling out the faithful in their fallacies, errors, lack of perspective or blindness, on their morality, philosophy or any other issue that they claim superiority could and should be done as long as they continue to proselytize, “witness” or evangelize. While those that would pray for such things as, say, a safe journey home, or a speedy recovery for a sick loved one are not malicious in their intent, those that would “pray for you” because your beliefs don’t match theirs are only putting their snobbishness and elitism on display, because, they are absolutely conveying that you are like a child who doesn’t know any better and it is their place and job to get you there, whether it is by divine intervention or their “witnessing”. Such people should be knocked down a notch or ten and not all of us have the chutzpah, knowledge or debating skills necessary to do that; I believe therein lies the necessity and good in the poster-boys’ militant aggressiveness and abrasiveness.

]]> By: courtney http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-2896 courtney Wed, 05 Nov 2008 05:15:34 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-2896 katie, I am grew up like you-a hard core fundamentalist Christian. I too, turned away in disgust of the fanatics and rallies and crusades and the lessons I was taught. however, I could never shake that the world came into existence on...accident? Knowing I could not live as an agnostic, I took upon myself to decide what the truth is from a skepital perspective, reading both cases for and against Christianity, evolution, and various philosophies and religions. What I have found is the truth. There is a God, he is not impersonal, and he does not need me to be a fanatic or culturally bound by Christians-who are just human and are, as you said, looking for reasons to cope live and love. i still believe i am a skeptic -but everyone believes something in the end. katie,

I am grew up like you-a hard core fundamentalist Christian. I too, turned away in disgust of the fanatics and rallies and crusades and the lessons I was taught. however, I could never shake that the world came into existence on…accident? Knowing I could not live as an agnostic, I took upon myself to decide what the truth is from a skepital perspective, reading both cases for and against Christianity, evolution, and various philosophies and religions. What I have found is the truth. There is a God, he is not impersonal, and he does not need me to be a fanatic or culturally bound by Christians-who are just human and are, as you said, looking for reasons to cope live and love. i still believe i am a skeptic -but everyone believes something in the end.

]]> By: Tricia http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-1920 Tricia Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:37:51 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-1920 Katie: What a brave and wonderful person you are! Thanks for such a heartfelt article, I'm sorry you've faced a lot of rejection. I believe as humans we have to be taught to tolerate differing opinions and be more open to dialogue. I,m a new skeptic, questioning her faith and I find some of the hardliners of Atheism too abrasive also. But you must admit, they have better senses of humor! Katie:
What a brave and wonderful person you are! Thanks for such a heartfelt article, I’m sorry you’ve faced a lot of rejection. I believe as humans we have to be taught to tolerate differing opinions and be more open to dialogue.
I,m a new skeptic, questioning her faith and I find some of the hardliners of Atheism too abrasive also. But you must admit, they have better senses of humor!

]]> By: Barry Greenstein http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-1886 Barry Greenstein Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:53:08 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-1886 But to only allow fully qualified teachers to home school their kids would be discrimination. Keep as many kids as possible in the public schools- including the children of rich parents who otherwise would be sequestered in private schools- and you won't have to worry about those kind of budget cuts. I am not pretending the public school system is perfect as it is, just that we let alternative schools get away with murder while gutting the public schools like cannibals. But to only allow fully qualified teachers to home school their kids would be discrimination.

Keep as many kids as possible in the public schools- including the children of rich parents who otherwise would be sequestered in private schools- and you won’t have to worry about those kind of budget cuts. I am not pretending the public school system is perfect as it is, just that we let alternative schools get away with murder while gutting the public schools like cannibals.

]]> By: Ian Bushfield http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-1880 Ian Bushfield Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:43:44 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-1880 What about parents who are fully qualified teachers? Can they not choose to teach the curriculum to their own children in their own homes? What if a parent is a fully qualified teacher and their child has severe special needs which are not properly looked after in public school (due to funding cuts perhaps), yet this parent has the time, money, and energy to teach the child him/herself? I don't think we can blanket ban homeschooling, but we can control it. What about parents who are fully qualified teachers? Can they not choose to teach the curriculum to their own children in their own homes?

What if a parent is a fully qualified teacher and their child has severe special needs which are not properly looked after in public school (due to funding cuts perhaps), yet this parent has the time, money, and energy to teach the child him/herself?

I don’t think we can blanket ban homeschooling, but we can control it.

]]> By: Ian Bushfield http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-1879 Ian Bushfield Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:40:22 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-1879 "Kenneth Miller (a Christian like you)" I don't know if I'd use that phrase Tauriq ;-) “Kenneth Miller (a Christian like you)”

I don’t know if I’d use that phrase Tauriq ;-)

]]> By: I Used to Love Jesus « Skepfeeds-The Best Skeptic blogs of the day http://factonista.org/2008/10/04/i-used-to-love-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-1858 I Used to Love Jesus « Skepfeeds-The Best Skeptic blogs of the day Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:16:55 +0000 http://theedger.org/?p=1655#comment-1858 [...] READ THE REST OF THIS ENTRY AT “EDGER” [...] [...] READ THE REST OF THIS ENTRY AT “EDGER” [...]

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