Factonista is an online freethought advocacy organization that relies on its users for content. Through international broad-based collaboration with its users, and other groups and organizations, it strives to provide timely and comprehensive news, views, reviews, and creative multimedia on issues at the forefront of everything under the umbrella of freethought
Alright, so lets talk about the 1st presidential debate of the current U.S. election.
I should start out with a big fat disclaimer that I am unapolagetically liberal. At least, that’s what they tell me. I favor higher taxes for the wealthier portions of the population, and I think issues of public interest require public involvement in the form of government.
I also think gay marriage is splendid and that tree hugging is an admirable pass-time.
With that said, I also understand that the secular humanist movement is wonderfully bipartisan. In fact one of my biggest heroes in the movement, Bob Price, is as unapolagetically conservative as I am liberal. So I will try to honor that bipartisan spirit and try to focus my analysis of the debate on factors that would appeal to secular humanists from all ends of the political spectrum.
Okay, so now lets talk about bear DNA. Or rather, lets begin with McCain’s comments on bear DNA.
“…and we have former members of congress now residing in federal prison because of the evils of this earmarking and pork-barrel spending. You know, we spent $3 million dollars to study the DNA of bears in Montana, I don’t know if that was a criminal issue or a paternal issue. But the fact is that it was $3 million of our tax-payers money and it has to be brought under control. ”
This comment is one that should concern all secular humanists who think that funding basic scientific research should be a high priority of civilization. Unfortunately I don’t know what specific study McCain was talking about, but I do know from working as an undergraduate researcher in four primary research labs with ties to biomedical research, that right now all biology is starving for funding. Funding for basic research in the U.S. is at a historic low, as can be confirmed by articles in primary research journals, such as Science, addressing lack of funding for basic research.
The way that funding is going these days, whatever those brave researchers in Montana are examining, it had to compete for that funding in a hostile environment. Meaning that it had to beat out lots of other projects, and demonstrate a high amount of priority to the peer review process by other scientists.
McCain could have listed any basic research science project as an example of pork barrel spending, simply because basic research is scientific research which does not have an immediate promise of marketable technology. He could have easily made the same argument about any basic research project, like sending robotic rovers to Mars.
Ironically, nearly all scientists agree that we need basic science in order to produce better technology.
This kind of comment is anti-science, and anti-intellectual.
Now to try to be fair to my conservative brothers and sisters, Obama is a son of a bitch for not pointing this out.
Even worse, Obama may have not said anything because he doesn’t understand that what McCain was describing as potentially criminal pork-barrel spending was, more than likely, badly needed funding for basic scientific research.
Obama does make some comments which I was happy to hear:
“We’ve got to make sure that we are competing in education. We’ve got to invest in science and technology. China had a space launch, and a space-walk. We’ve got to make sure that our children are keeping pace in math and in science, and, one of the things I think we’ve got to do is make sure that college is affordable for every young person in America.”
These are all priorities that should resound with every secular humanist committed to a scientifically literate society.
Now, I tend to see a big heart around Barak Obama’s head every time he’s on screen, so take all that with a grain of salt.
McCain made some positive statements when he said:
” First of all, by the way, I’d eliminate ethanol subsidies. I oppose ethanol subsidies. ”
From what most of my engineering, chemistry and physics buddies tell me, ethanol is not an efficient fuel option. At least not the corn ethanol variety. There was a good presentation on this with my local CSICOP chapter.
In the left, concern over climate change sometimes causes us to cling to anything that we think will reduce our dependence on oil and octane. Yet, it seems that corn ethanol production uses more oil than it can replace.
Obama talks a lot about alternative energy throughout the debate, but I do worry that he may be guilty of liberal pipe dreams about inefficient technologies, simply because they are not oil or octane.
Obama makes me see the heart around his head again when he brings up “Google for government,” which makes me pop a freethinking synaptic stiffy.
“Google for government” is a program to make it information on which members of congress are tied to what spending practices easily accessible to the public. Any good freethinker should be a strong advocate for ease of access to information on anything related to government.
McCain makes me lose my synaptic stiffy when he suggests a “spending freeze on everything but defense, veteran affairs, and entitlement programs.”
Most science is funded by tax payer money. Hence, I would have to say that this is more troubling anti-science hogwash. If you want a more scientific society, then you cannot endorse the halting of the vast majority of scientific research.
But McCain makes me love him again by bringing up nuclear power. From what my physics pals tell me, nuclear power is the best way to tackle climate change. This is no small matter. Nuclear power could be a realistic down to earth solution for our energy needs that does not produce greenhouse gases. This is something that we should, at least, be discussing. I appreciate McCain’s enthusiasm for this issue.
McCain said that Obama was opposed to nuclear power, I don’t know if this is true, but he certainly does not show the kind of support for it that I would like to see.
There was a great deal of talk on the war. For me there is one issue which I cannot ignore regarding this war: Islam.
I am solidly in the Harris/Hitchens camp on Islam. Essentially, I think Islam is intrinsically designed by its scriptures to be a theology of conversion through violence. This causes me to be a little right of center. What we do in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, will have drastic consequences for Islamic violence all over the world.
Neither McCain or Obama discuss the problem in these terms, indeed it would be political suicide to do so.
I fear that if we leave Iraq prematurely we will have one more Islamic theocracy in the world.
I did appreciate Obama’s focus on Al-qaeda when discussing the Iraq/Afghanistan wars which puts Islamic extremism in the cross hairs.
I wrote this piece mostly to highlight the issues which are pertinent to secular humanists who seek to promote a more science based society.
I am a political junkie. As I listen to the analysis of the debates on NPR, and other news sources which I am fond of, I see these issues largely ignored.
Things said in this debate which affect science funding, science-based solutions to climate change, education, increased ease of access to government information, and the increasing prominence of radical Islam have been largely ignored by the media.
I don’t see this as some conspiracy, but rather as a symptom of a poorly educated and largely anti-intellectual electorate. The failures of political reporters on science related issues are well highlighted in Chris Mooney’s book The Republican War on Science.
I also see the secular humanist movement as a largely political endeavour. The work that I am trying to do in writing for Edger, in being a friend of the Center for Inquiry, as being a leader in a C.F.I. student club is largely to try to influence society to embrace a worldview which is friendly to secular humanism, and to give science its well deserved prominence.
I hope this piece was informative.
tweets loading 
How DARE you criticize McCain for not fully supporting science funding. When he was a POW in Vietnam, he didn’t have science or funding!
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/09/i_love_stephen_colbert.php
I imagine you are too young to remember Senator Proxmire’s “Golden Fleece” awards, in which he cheerfully paraded his ignorance by making fun of, for instance, basic genetic research as “studying the sex life of fruit flies.” The thing is, it is easy for idiots to make fun of what they don’t understand.
Well, nuclear energy is all fine and dandy, but to my knowledge there aren’t many safe way to handle the waste, which could take thousands of years to lose its radioactivity. It’s not much better than corn ethanol, IMO.
And, as far as that $3 million dollars for bears goes, McCain ridicules it, but he voted for the bill that included it. http://www.factcheck.org/outrageous_exaggerations.html
when i heard that come out as mcshame was blathering, i just thought, ‘that’s exactly what we Should be spending money on’
more drivel for 30 minuets and then, ‘i want to build 50 nuclear power plants’…. *head on desk*
that is the last thing we need,
all he talked about, as usual was war, war, and more war
but did you know….he was a POW,
John McCain is trying to be like the late Senator William Proxmire, who gave out “Golden Fleece” awards to research projects that he thought were absurd wastes of taxpayers’ money. He once mocked a university’s research into a walking robot that they called the “Bionic Bug” by describing what wonders that machine would do for that university’s football team.
But it would be fun to apply the Golden Fleece treatment to various notable discoveries.
Aristarchus wants to find out how far the Moon is by studying eclipses?
Galileo Galilei wants to make balls roll down slanted boards?
Michael Faraday wants to stick a magnet through a coil of wire?
Gregor Mendel wants to crossbreed PEA PLANTS???
Albert Michelson and Edward Morley want to see if light travels faster in one direction than another?
Ernest Rutherford wants to expose some gold foil to some radium?
Etc.
I am obviously seeing things differently, but I don’t think the DNA reference was anti-science at all. I think you’ve distorted the issue Rodrigo. He was just giving an example (in his view) of out of control spending by the government. He never said he would cut science funding. He just wants to control government spending, starting by eliminating the wasteful spending going on. He did not explicitly, or implicitly, relate science funding to wasteful spending.
I completely agree. I also find being to young to remember anything these days a refreshing problem. I think I am considerably older than the other Edger writers.
This is true. The waste is very dangerous, but if it is also significantly less than the harm done by climate change at the rate that our greenhouse gas production is causing it. I like to think nuclear could buy us enough time to make the other alternatives more efficient.
Thanks for the link on the funding and McCain’s vote for it.
I would tend to agree, but I was trying to be bipartisan with this article.
I do sincerely like the proposal for more nuclear power plants, but I am solidly in the Obama camp.
That is refreshing commentary. I enjoyed this comment very much. I only lament that I did not think of it myself when writing this piece.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
As many of the above comments have illustrated, these kind of comments can be made easily about any kind of basic research. As long as the public cannot see direct utility in technology markets, all basic research is going to look like a waste of money, unless you understand that funding basic research is a safe investment in general.
Here is a link to the project, which will allow you to better decide if I distorted McCain’s message, or if this is a legitimate scientific project:
http://www.nrmsc.usgs.gov/research/NCDEbeardna.htm
So you honestly believe McCain is anti-science for scoffing at the 3mil grant?
No doubt science is not in the top list of priorities for him, and science funding will probably go down, but that’s because he’s got different priorities. Here are some of his views on science. They are not anti-science at all. http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php
As for government funding basic research; why should they? It’s money that belongs to taxpayers. It shouldn’t come with no strings attached. There are other useful things to do with that money that can have immediate and beneficial impact on people’s lives.
Renovate a school or map bear genome?
Free vaccines or map bear genome?
Cancer research or map bear genome?
Let me list some publicly funded research projects that I am aware of:
1.)Mapping the intracellular pathway of long term depression in hippocampal neurons of rats.
2.)Trying to understand the role of immediate early genes in long term potentiation in neurons.
3.)Trying to figure out whether or not the mechanical activation of action potentials in neurons in the absence of ions disproves the Huxley-Hodgkins model.
All of these sound like pork, don’t they. Especially if I change my wording, ever so slightly to make them sound more like pork. Respectively:
1.) Millions of dollars spent in rat memories.
2.) Millions of dollars spent in the genetics of rat memories.
3.) Millions of dollars in some obscure academic argument about electricity in rat brains.
Now compare this with any other publicly funded project.
Do you get my point?
All basic science sounds like pork, when you are addressing a scientifically illiterate electorate.
I need to make an adjustment
3.) Millions of dollars in some obscure academic argument about electricity in squid brains!
All of these projects that I have deliberately tried to make look like pork (which is what I accuse McCain of doing) have huge implications for neurology and medicine, but none of them directly.
When comparing electricity in squid brains to feeding the homeless, it looks like bullshit.
I know that it looks like bullshit.
All basic science looks like bullshit unless you understand that basic science for its own sake is a worthy endeavour.
McCain and Obama’s response to the science debate questions are wonderful. Its too bad that they forget them when science is not the main topic of discussion.
I don’t think they are mapping the bear genome, from me glancing at the project web site it looks like they are trying to take a census of the bear population based on fur left on fences.
I also think that cancer research will suffer if you stop funding basic research which cancer researchers rely heavily on to understand the still vastly unknown world of cellular mechanisms.
It’s very disappointing that nobody in the Republicrat camp questions the legitimacy of US foreign intervention anymore. If you didn’t hear anything about Islam in the debate is because the US presence in the Middle East has little to do with it. It’s 70% about securing oil supplies and 30% about protecting the interests of another nation run by religious fanatics: Israel. So there you go, both Obama and McCain are for more intervention, more troops sent to the region, more bullying of Iran, more nation building in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, etc. This is completely immoral and one of the reasons why the country is going bankrupt. Bin Laden is just the latest bogeyman to keep you guys in line.
If you still believe the fairy tale of America spreading liberty and democracy around the world, I seriously have to question your critical thinking abilities. As much as I respect Hitchens, he is dead wrong about this too.
As for the anti-science talk of McCain and the good intentions of Obama… Did you hear that the whole economy is collapsing? You’ll have far more serious problems to face in the coming years than lack of research grants if the MOTS policies of Republicans and Democrats prevail, as they will.
In summary, this debate showed once more how your real choices have been reduced to a few trivial matters. The only real difference between McCain and Obama is who will (IN THEORY) be the main beneficiary of the welfare state: big corporations or the middle class. The problem is that the welfare state lives off debt and is, for all practical purposes, broke. I’m sorry, but it’s a lose-lose situation. There’s no real change possible.
Putting “Islam in the Crosshairs” as you put it would simply push more people towards violent fundamentalism. Just look at Iraq; a retrograde but relatively peaceful society has turned into a sectarian mess full of suicide bombings and violent fundamentalist preachers such as Muqtada al-Sadr. The United States hasn’t exactly had its hands clean in the past either; Bin Laden’s victories in Afghanistan were courtesy of the CIA and the blowback of the CIA overthrow of President Mossadegh of Iran brought Khomeini in power 25 years later.
So I don’t see what you could hope to achieve by putting “Islam in the Crosshairs” unless the objective would be to just kill as many Muslims indiscriminately as possible, which would simply prove that we are ten times are barbaric as they are.
He probably didn’t have proper health care there either….so does that mean we shouldn’t have that for the country?
>How DARE you criticize McCain for not fully supporting science funding. When he was a POW i>n Vietnam, he didn’t have science or funding!
You make a good point.
I just don’t think the best way to get rid of Islamic fundamentalism is to ignore it.
I just wish a reporter or someone would ask him in “republican” terms. They like to be zingy with language? Fine… We’re smart kids. We should be able to do zingy language, too… But we never do.
“Senator, would you be willing to pay even one penny to better understand American wildlife as significant as bears? Why do you keep repeating this implication that it wasn’t worth less than a penny each to the American people?”
As you say… There -was- someone in an ideal position to point that out on Friday. Unfortunately, he’s a democrat, and we democrats just don’t -do- that. Why? Even if the last 25 years of republican rhetoric hadn’t taught us that the American people like and respond well to catchy, zingy language, the first year of Senator Obama’s own campaign should have.
I would tend to agree Honor.
* What a bad-ass name you have, by the way.
hey excellent post, really enjoyed it. I’ve added your blog to my netvibes account – will be keeping up with your posts!