<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Political Untouchables</title>
	<atom:link href="http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/</link>
	<description>Science. Humanism. Atheism. Politics.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:06:32 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Chedstone</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>Chedstone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-506</guid>
		<description>I too was upset that their first public forum was at that church with the pastor as the moderator. Good article!  I&#039;m glad you guy&#039;s made this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too was upset that their first public forum was at that church with the pastor as the moderator. Good article!  I&#8217;m glad you guy&#8217;s made this site.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max Jackson</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-501</guid>
		<description>Obama has spoken passionately about faith-based initiatives, just see his July speech on the issue:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5xY3

Obama has pledged to expand on Bush&#039;s faith-based initiatives to the tune of an additional $500 million per year.

The news isn&#039;t all bad; Obama&#039;s plan wouldn&#039;t allow charities to &quot;take religion into account&quot; when hiring, while McCain&#039;s limited words on FBIs indicate that he would allow such discrimination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama has spoken passionately about faith-based initiatives, just see his July speech on the issue:<br />
<a href="http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5xY3" rel="nofollow">http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5xY3</a></p>
<p>Obama has pledged to expand on Bush&#8217;s faith-based initiatives to the tune of an additional $500 million per year.</p>
<p>The news isn&#8217;t all bad; Obama&#8217;s plan wouldn&#8217;t allow charities to &#8220;take religion into account&#8221; when hiring, while McCain&#8217;s limited words on FBIs indicate that he would allow such discrimination.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max Jackson</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-500</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-500</guid>
		<description>The reason that my girlfriend(Leah ^)&#039;s mother gave me the book in the first place was because she was scared of Obama, thinking that he had ties to Louis Farrakhan and wanted to destroy the nation of Israel.
This isn&#039;t true, unless you regularly watch Fox News. But the fact remains that people are irrationally wary of a man whose middle name is Hussein and who attended a madrasah as a child, and as such Obama has been fighting a tough battle to firmly establish himself as a Christian.

In fact, he has been pounding on his Christian faith far more aggressively than McCain has, as a cursory glance of the campaign&#039;s past would show you. Is he really as Christian as he claims to be? Or is he just cynically exploiting the Christian vote? One thing to consider is his march towards the center since the primary season has ended. Is this cynical too? Which Obama is he? If you can still trust his leadership, then you are a far better human than I am. I, however, remain disillusioned after the cold slaps to the face the Obama camp has given me. Some progress is better than none, true, but nothing about the Obama camp inspires me to actively support him.

Yes, we should vote for Obama, there is no doubt of that. But my vote is being cast not because I like the man that Obama is, but because a McCain presidency would would be far, far worse. I find myself watching bitterly as Obama&#039;s army of young idealists pump their fists in the air every time he opens his mouth, reflecting that I could have been in that crowd too, and almost was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason that my girlfriend(Leah ^)&#8217;s mother gave me the book in the first place was because she was scared of Obama, thinking that he had ties to Louis Farrakhan and wanted to destroy the nation of Israel.<br />
This isn&#8217;t true, unless you regularly watch Fox News. But the fact remains that people are irrationally wary of a man whose middle name is Hussein and who attended a madrasah as a child, and as such Obama has been fighting a tough battle to firmly establish himself as a Christian.</p>
<p>In fact, he has been pounding on his Christian faith far more aggressively than McCain has, as a cursory glance of the campaign&#8217;s past would show you. Is he really as Christian as he claims to be? Or is he just cynically exploiting the Christian vote? One thing to consider is his march towards the center since the primary season has ended. Is this cynical too? Which Obama is he? If you can still trust his leadership, then you are a far better human than I am. I, however, remain disillusioned after the cold slaps to the face the Obama camp has given me. Some progress is better than none, true, but nothing about the Obama camp inspires me to actively support him.</p>
<p>Yes, we should vote for Obama, there is no doubt of that. But my vote is being cast not because I like the man that Obama is, but because a McCain presidency would would be far, far worse. I find myself watching bitterly as Obama&#8217;s army of young idealists pump their fists in the air every time he opens his mouth, reflecting that I could have been in that crowd too, and almost was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. S.</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-499</link>
		<dc:creator>A. S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-499</guid>
		<description>[quote]Whether or not he can be a truer voice for atheism, do you really think he can lead this country?[/quote]That is not a point either you or I made. I&#039;m sure McCain&#039;s extensive political career would make him a better leader. This is a reason to vote for him in this election, but not at all persuasive per se.[quote]Now, we go to the pumps, expecting to pay well over $4 a gallon, and americans obey quietly like abused animals.[/quote]I really don&#039;t see what the average citizen can do about this except adapting to it. The only people who think they can easily make a change are the &quot;prayer at the pump&quot; wackos and those who think that offshore drilling will do away with our dependence on foreign oil. The only solution is to shift to using nuclear, aeolian, solar, etc. energy. Except for (maybe) nuclear energy, you won&#039;t see any right-wing politician taking steps into that direction.

Regardless of other problems one might have with Obama (or with the fact that we can only reasonably choose between him and McCain), he is a candidate with positions that are mostly shared by nonbelievers. To say that he&#039;s a &quot;Christian [leader] who will lead a Christian nation with Christian values towards a Christian world&quot; is simply false.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]Whether or not he can be a truer voice for atheism, do you really think he can lead this country?[/quote]That is not a point either you or I made. I&#8217;m sure McCain&#8217;s extensive political career would make him a better leader. This is a reason to vote for him in this election, but not at all persuasive per se.[quote]Now, we go to the pumps, expecting to pay well over $4 a gallon, and americans obey quietly like abused animals.[/quote]I really don&#8217;t see what the average citizen can do about this except adapting to it. The only people who think they can easily make a change are the &#8220;prayer at the pump&#8221; wackos and those who think that offshore drilling will do away with our dependence on foreign oil. The only solution is to shift to using nuclear, aeolian, solar, etc. energy. Except for (maybe) nuclear energy, you won&#8217;t see any right-wing politician taking steps into that direction.</p>
<p>Regardless of other problems one might have with Obama (or with the fact that we can only reasonably choose between him and McCain), he is a candidate with positions that are mostly shared by nonbelievers. To say that he&#8217;s a &#8220;Christian [leader] who will lead a Christian nation with Christian values towards a Christian world&#8221; is simply false.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leah Carolan</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah Carolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-495</guid>
		<description>More importantly, I feel somewhat frustrated that THESE are the men we are forced to discuss this election year.  It seems like the country has a different energy than it used to compared to past election years.  Almost as if the country has given up hope already.  Gas prices rose from $2.86 to $2.90 last year and everyone was outraged and scared.  Now, we go to the pumps, expecting to pay well over $4 a gallon, and americans obey quietly like abused animals.  Even the most staunch McCain and Obama supporters find flaws with their political representatives, and tolerate it.  It seems as though Mediocrity is America&#039;s greatest export right now, and the world doesn&#039;t seem to expect much more of us.  We went from a golden age of economic and social leadership to being the first world&#039;s B student, and we are slowly slipping.  Americans were desperate for strong leaders to turn to, for a man to take this country and give us back the comforts and securities we have become accustomed to, and instead, we produce a man with wonderful ideals, but not very strong credentials.  Whether or not he can be a truer voice for atheism, do you really think he can lead this country?

as an acting major, I am taking a very interesting directing class.  We just recently learned about the audition process.  Say you are casting a production of Hamlet.  Two men show up who you are deciding between to play the title role.  One of them seems aggressive.  He has the chops, but he could likely take hold of the production and make it into his little show, which most likely is a completely separate show from the one YOU are planning on directing.  the next actor is friendly, young, handsome, charming, charismatic, and inspiring to work with.  You plan on casting him in a heartbeat, however, when he asks you &quot;to be, or not to be,&quot; you realise that his &quot;chops&quot; are not where they should be to carry this role.  You then do what every director in the world would do:  You realise that if he can&#039;t perform in an audition, that a few, no matter how pressing rehearsals will never make him ready for opening night.  you scrap your audition and start over.

the scary part is that america can&#039;t scrap it&#039;s audition.  it can&#039;t start over.  it needs  to choose one of these two leading men, and our production will no doubtedly sink.

think about how many more cynical children in public schools will scoff when their professors promise them that even though their field trip to see a crappy production of hamlet wasn&#039;t a good example of shakespeare&#039;s brilliance, that hamlet really is an amazing work of literature.  right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More importantly, I feel somewhat frustrated that THESE are the men we are forced to discuss this election year.  It seems like the country has a different energy than it used to compared to past election years.  Almost as if the country has given up hope already.  Gas prices rose from $2.86 to $2.90 last year and everyone was outraged and scared.  Now, we go to the pumps, expecting to pay well over $4 a gallon, and americans obey quietly like abused animals.  Even the most staunch McCain and Obama supporters find flaws with their political representatives, and tolerate it.  It seems as though Mediocrity is America&#8217;s greatest export right now, and the world doesn&#8217;t seem to expect much more of us.  We went from a golden age of economic and social leadership to being the first world&#8217;s B student, and we are slowly slipping.  Americans were desperate for strong leaders to turn to, for a man to take this country and give us back the comforts and securities we have become accustomed to, and instead, we produce a man with wonderful ideals, but not very strong credentials.  Whether or not he can be a truer voice for atheism, do you really think he can lead this country?</p>
<p>as an acting major, I am taking a very interesting directing class.  We just recently learned about the audition process.  Say you are casting a production of Hamlet.  Two men show up who you are deciding between to play the title role.  One of them seems aggressive.  He has the chops, but he could likely take hold of the production and make it into his little show, which most likely is a completely separate show from the one YOU are planning on directing.  the next actor is friendly, young, handsome, charming, charismatic, and inspiring to work with.  You plan on casting him in a heartbeat, however, when he asks you &#8220;to be, or not to be,&#8221; you realise that his &#8220;chops&#8221; are not where they should be to carry this role.  You then do what every director in the world would do:  You realise that if he can&#8217;t perform in an audition, that a few, no matter how pressing rehearsals will never make him ready for opening night.  you scrap your audition and start over.</p>
<p>the scary part is that america can&#8217;t scrap it&#8217;s audition.  it can&#8217;t start over.  it needs  to choose one of these two leading men, and our production will no doubtedly sink.</p>
<p>think about how many more cynical children in public schools will scoff when their professors promise them that even though their field trip to see a crappy production of hamlet wasn&#8217;t a good example of shakespeare&#8217;s brilliance, that hamlet really is an amazing work of literature.  right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A.H.</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-483</link>
		<dc:creator>A.H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-483</guid>
		<description>Also! The phrase &quot;Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered rights&quot; within itself implies issues beyond gay marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also! The phrase &#8220;Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered rights&#8221; within itself implies issues beyond gay marriage.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A.H.</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>A.H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-482</guid>
		<description>A.S. you are right, the reality is that in the game of politics, you simply would not be able to be elected unless you wore your religion on your sleeve. That obviously won&#039;t change anytime soon as frustrating as that may be. But why shouldn&#039;t Obama be able to say that he is a Christian, or anyone for that matter. He has just the right as a non-believer to say that they are an Atheist (although that probably won&#039;t happen anytime soon). I find it would be very presumptuous to believe that Obama would support faith-based initiatives and not secular ones. In fact it would be presumptuous to assume so for any outright Christian without looking at their record. It&#039;s a problem I find among many secular rights advocates, who would bemoan politicians for speaking about their religion, and not even bother to look at what they have said or done for secular rights, simply assuming they wouldn&#039;t support Atheist. 

I also want warn those who use GLBT rights as a means to explain the causes of secularism. I was once told in a discussion with another Atheist that gay marriage is what GLBT rights advocates essentially seek, and that they should also see it as similar to Secular rights. Please, the GLBT cause is much more complex then that. There are parallels between both causes no doubt. That can also be said of feminism and minority rights. All these causes can&#039;t simply be discussed as being the same! I find it frustrating to hear sometimes that the Civil Rights Movement to include the Womens Rights Movement. Both movements had it&#039;s own advocates and histories, they just happen to occur in conjunction. 

Great video by the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A.S. you are right, the reality is that in the game of politics, you simply would not be able to be elected unless you wore your religion on your sleeve. That obviously won&#8217;t change anytime soon as frustrating as that may be. But why shouldn&#8217;t Obama be able to say that he is a Christian, or anyone for that matter. He has just the right as a non-believer to say that they are an Atheist (although that probably won&#8217;t happen anytime soon). I find it would be very presumptuous to believe that Obama would support faith-based initiatives and not secular ones. In fact it would be presumptuous to assume so for any outright Christian without looking at their record. It&#8217;s a problem I find among many secular rights advocates, who would bemoan politicians for speaking about their religion, and not even bother to look at what they have said or done for secular rights, simply assuming they wouldn&#8217;t support Atheist. </p>
<p>I also want warn those who use GLBT rights as a means to explain the causes of secularism. I was once told in a discussion with another Atheist that gay marriage is what GLBT rights advocates essentially seek, and that they should also see it as similar to Secular rights. Please, the GLBT cause is much more complex then that. There are parallels between both causes no doubt. That can also be said of feminism and minority rights. All these causes can&#8217;t simply be discussed as being the same! I find it frustrating to hear sometimes that the Civil Rights Movement to include the Womens Rights Movement. Both movements had it&#8217;s own advocates and histories, they just happen to occur in conjunction. </p>
<p>Great video by the way!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A.S.</title>
		<link>http://factonista.org/2008/08/29/political-untouchables/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>A.S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theedger.org/?p=878#comment-481</guid>
		<description>I think that you might be exaggerating the regretability of the faithless voting for Obama. Yes, he professes Christian belief. And yes, he does support faith-based initiatives (however, if properly enforced, the restrictions that he has in mind will make these government contributions indistinguishable from those provided to secular philanthropic organizations). But to portray him as a &quot;lesser of two evils&quot; for the cause of secularism is misleading and might cause quite a few voters staying at home rather than voting for Obama. In a democracy with a clear religious majority, openly nonreligious politicians will find it hard to get elected. That&#039;s the situation, and while it is so, we need to support politicians that share secular values. And Obama certainly does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKX16Eygs0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you might be exaggerating the regretability of the faithless voting for Obama. Yes, he professes Christian belief. And yes, he does support faith-based initiatives (however, if properly enforced, the restrictions that he has in mind will make these government contributions indistinguishable from those provided to secular philanthropic organizations). But to portray him as a &#8220;lesser of two evils&#8221; for the cause of secularism is misleading and might cause quite a few voters staying at home rather than voting for Obama. In a democracy with a clear religious majority, openly nonreligious politicians will find it hard to get elected. That&#8217;s the situation, and while it is so, we need to support politicians that share secular values. And Obama certainly does: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKX16Eygs0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKX16Eygs0</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
